AfterMarketNews Auto Care Pro AutoProJobs Auto-Video.com Brake&Frontend BodyShopBusiness Counterman EngineBuilder Fleet Equipment ImportCar Motorcycle & Powersports News Servicio Automotriz Shop Owner Tire Review Tech Shop Tomorrow's Tech Underhood Service

Google Your Shop - What Do You See?

Go and enter the name of your shop at Google.com. Try putting quote marks around the name of your shop, like “Main Street Auto Care.” Now try entering the city where you are located with the name of your shop. What did you find? Your shop’s website?...

Read more...

Tennessee Shop Offers Discounts To Customers In Need

Price is often the biggest sticking point in an auto repair job. Some customers just have no feel for what certain services or parts cost, others have perhaps been treated poorly in the past (or are cheap), and some just flat out do not have the money....

Read more...

Technicians Are Modern-Day 'Code Talkers'

During World War II, the U.S. enlisted the help of Navajo and Comanche Native Americans as radio operators to use a code involving their language to disguise the real message over unsecured radio waves. If they were going to say the word “army,”...

Read more...

Vehicle Unit Increase; Import-Rich VIO Are A Boon for Import Specialists

Need a dose of good news for your business? Then hear this: The influx of new vehicles in the market will lay the foundation for bountiful aftermarket service and repair opportunities. And, with import vehicle sales continuing an ­upward climb, there...

Read more...

Honda: Engine Shuts Off, But Power Mode Stays In ‘On’ or ‘Accessory’

Applies To: Honda Insight models with one-push start Customers might complain that when they shift into park and shut off the engine, that the power mode stays in On or Accessory. Honda says the culprit could be a misadjusted shift cable. If the...

Read more...

Import Oil Specification Primer

As engine technology has evolved and fuel efficiency standards have tightened, oil specs have increased in importance. Using the wrong viscosity could set a fault code in some applications or interfere with the normal operation of the variable valve...

Read more...

What to Know About Modern Air Ride Systems

GM, Ford, BMW and just about every other manufacturer has a 10-year-old vehicle on the road with an air ride suspension at the rear or at all four corners. These systems could be as exotic as a Land Rover Defender or as common as a Ford Explorer....

Read more...

Slipping Clutch: Improper Flywheel Step and Cup Dimensions

Slipping is one of the most common clutch related concerns. A slipping condition can occur after years of service or immediately after installation of a new clutch and is caused by various scenarios. One of the most commonly seen and easily prevented...

Read more...

Parking Brake Adjustments

The parking or emergency brake has to perform two distinct jobs. First, it must be able to hold the vehicle on an incline. Second, it must be able to stop a vehicle under a specific distance if the hydraulic brakes have failed. These standards are...

Read more...

2015 Vehicle Lifting Points Guide Now Available

The Automotive Lift Institute, Inc. (ALI) announces the availability of the 2015 edition of ALI’s “Vehicle Lifting Points for Frame Engaging Lifts.” This updated guide is a quick-reference single-source manual for lifting point information as...

Read more...

Pulling Codes: P0302: Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected Intermittent Activity

  This article will address a misfire code from a different vantage point. It will look at a plan of attack for when a code is being set intermittently. The code we are referencing is P0302-Cylinder No. 2 Misfire Activity Detected. While...

Read more...

Registration Now Open For ToolTech 2015

The Equipment & Tool Institute (ETI) is hosting its ToolTech 2015 event April 13-16 at the Radisson Hotel and Suites in Downtown Austin, Texas. This year's theme is "The Connected Vehicle: Opportunities and Challenges." Information and technology...

Read more...

Home Engine Diagnosing Intermittent Stalling Issues

Print Print Email Email

Intermittent driveability problems of any kind are always a challenge to diagnose. When a customer brings you a vehicle and complains of a stalling problem, you may not have much to go on other than their description of what’s happening and when it happens. The more information you can get out of them the better, because you’ll likely need as many details as possible to narrow down the list of potential causes.

Many times, there will be no check engine light and no fault codes to give you a clue as to what might be causing the engine to stall. So the trick to diagnosing an intermittent stalling problem is to catch the vehicle when it’s acting up — and that rarely happens when you have the vehicle in your shop. You may have to keep the car and drive it for a few days to see if it stalls. Or, if you have a flight recorder, you can hook it up to the car and send your customer home with instructions on how to catch a snapshot of the problem when it happens. But even then, you may not capture any usable data.

COMMON CAUSES
Common causes of intermittent stalling may include a bad idle speed control (ISC) system, low fuel pressure, loss of ignition, vacuum or EGR leaks, or other problems we’ll get to later in this article. The engine’s idle speed is controlled by how much air is allowed to bypass the throttle via the idle bypass circuit in the throttle body. The PCM monitors idle speed and operates a solenoid or small electric motor to move a valve that regulates airflow through the air bypass circuit. If the ISC valve is gummed up with fuel varnish or dirt, it may stick, preventing the engine from maintaining the proper idle speed when the throttle closes.

A faulty idle speed control circuit may also allow the engine to stall when idling if it fails to compensate for idle loads placed on the engine by the charging system or A/C compressor. This can lug down the engine and cause it to stall.

A problem with the idle speed control circuit would be the most likely cause of stalling if the problem only occurs when the engine is idling or when the car comes to a stop after driving.

The idle speed control circuit can often be diagnosed with a professional-grade scan tool that has the proper software to command an idle speed control test. If such a test is not available on the vehicle, then obviously you can’t check it this way. But if it is, and you have a scan tool that can run the test, a good place to start would be to command an increase in idle speed to see if the ISC system responds as it should. No response? Then you know the ISC system has a problem. But what?

If you don’t have a scan tool that can do an idle speed test, or the vehicle does not have this capability, you can still test the response of the ISC system by turning on the A/C to max. If the ISC system is working correctly, the PCM should adjust idle speed to keep the engine from lugging down when the A/C compressor engages. If idle speed drops down and does not come back up, the ISC system is not responding the way it should.

Don’t jump to conclusions — even though the most likely cause would be a bad idle speed control solenoid or motor. Don’t replace anything until you do the following:

  1. Clean out the idle air bypass circuit with several shots of aerosol throttle cleaner. Aim for the little air bypass holes in the throttle opening. Use the small plastic tube that attaches to the nozzle on the aerosol can to aim the cleaner directly into the bypass port(s). Let the cleaner soak for at least 10 minutes before giving it another blast of cleaner. Then start the engine and repeat the idle speed test.

    If the engine now idles normally, and you can command idle speed changes, you’ve fixed the problem (a dirty idle bypass port or valve). But if the ISC system still fails to respond to your command to increase idle speed, or fails to maintain normal idle speed, there’s a problem that will require further diagnosis before you replace any parts.

  2. Check the idle speed control system wiring harness and connector to make sure it’s tight and corrosion-free. Problems here can prevent the PCM command signal from reaching the ISC solenoid or motor. Look up the ISC circuit wiring diagram for the vehicle, and check for voltage and ground at the appropriate terminals. Replacing a perfectly good ISC motor or solenoid won’t fix the problem if the fault is in the wiring.

  3. If the wiring harness appears to be good, and the ISC solenoid or motor is receiving a signal from the PCM — but is not responding — you can assume the fault is a bad ISC motor or solenoid.

    Unfortunately, some technicians just replace the ISC motor or solenoid before checking these other possibilities, and then discover it didn’t fix the fault.

Another possible cause of ISC-related stalling problems would be a bad ISC driver circuit in the PCM. This doesn’t happen very often, but the driver circuit may be damaged if one of the wires that carries voltage in the ISC control circuit shorts or grounds out. The driver circuit can be tested with a noid light or a digital oscilloscope to see if the PCM is sending a digital control signal to the ISC motor or solenoid. No signal would tell you the driver circuit is dead and your customer needs a new PCM.

STALLING DUE TO LOW FUEL PRESSURE
If the engine stalls while idling or driving, the engine may be running out of fuel or not receiving enough fuel pressure to keep it running.

The most likely cause of this kind of stalling would be a fuel pump that is not spinning fast enough or is intermittently cutting out. If the vehicle is more than seven or eight years old and has a lot of miles on it, the fuel pump would certainly be suspect. But as with the idle speed control circuit, don’t replace anything until you’ve run some diagnostic tests.

The first thing to check would be fuel pressure. Look up the specifications for the year, make and model of the vehicle, then connect a gauge to the fuel system and measure the pressure with the key on, engine off (KOEO), then again with the engine idling. Fuel pressure should be within specifications when the key is on, then drop 4 to 6 psi once the engine starts and is idling.

Note: Some vehicle manufacturers list pressure specifications for both KOEO and idle, while others only list a fuel pressure specification for one or the other. Make sure you are using the correct specification.

If fuel pressure is low (less than the minimum specification), check the fuel filter. When was the last time it was replaced? Never?

Next, check the fuel pressure regulator to see if it’s leaking. This can be done by pulling the vacuum hose off the regulator. Look in the hose to see if there is any fuel inside (there should be none). If the inside of the vacuum hose is wet with fuel, the diaphragm inside the fuel pressure regulator is leaking. Replace the regulator.

Fuel pressure should rise 4 to 6 psi or more when the vacuum hose is removed from the regulator. No change in the fuel pressure gauge reading would tell you the regulator is not doing anything.

You can also pinch off the regulator return hose to see if fuel pressure goes up (it should). Little or no change in fuel pressure would indicate a weak fuel pump, not a bad regulator.

You should also check the fuel pump’s ability to deliver an adequate supply of fuel by measuring fuel volume. A good fuel pump is usually capable of delivering at least 750 ml (3/4 quart) of fuel in 30 seconds. If it can’t, there’s a problem. It might be a weak pump, or maybe the pump isn’t spinning at normal speed because of low voltage or a bad ground connection. Loose or corroded wiring connections anywhere in the fuel pump electrical circuit, or bad ground connections, may be affecting the operation of the pump. Even low charging voltage can affect fuel pressure. So you may have to make some additional voltage checks to figure out if the problem is the wiring or the pump itself.

Even if the pump is generating normal pressure at idle, it may not deliver adequate flow at higher engine speeds. The engine may start and idle fine, but run out of power or even stall at highway speeds. If the engine starts right back up after stalling, the likely cause is low fuel volume delivery because of a weak pump.

IGNITION FAULTS
If the engine is running normally one minute, but suddenly quits, loss of ignition may be the problem. This can be caused by anything that disrupts the ignition system. Possible causes include an intermittent short or open in a crankshaft position sensor or the sensor’s wiring connector or harness, an intermittent short or open in an ignition control module, or an intermittent short or open in the coil primary voltage supply circuit (bad ignition switch or wiring).

Magnetic crankshaft position sensors are fairly simple and reliable, but the internal windings can sometimes open and kill the crank signal if the sensor gets too hot. If the engine has a magnetic crank sensor, you can test it with an ohmmeter to see if the resistance is within specifications. But even if the sensor tests “good,” it may still cause trouble. We’ve seen certain crank sensors that measure within specifications when tested cold with an ohmmeter, but suddenly go wide open if the sensor gets hotter than 200 to 220° F. One minute it’s working fine producing a good signal, and the next it goes dead and causes the engine to stall. If an overheated crank sensor is causing a stalling problem, the engine may not restart until it sits awhile and the sensor cools down.

HALL EFFECT SENSORS
Hall effect crank position sensors are more troublesome because they’re vulnerable to electrical problems in the wiring and internal circuit components. Hall effect crank sensors typically have three wires: voltage supply, ground and signal return. They produce a digital on-off signal rather than a sine wave AC signal like a magnetic sensor. If a Hall effect crank sensor does not receive the required voltage supply from the PCM or it has a bad ground, or its internal circuitry is not working correctly, it won’t produce a crank signal. So be sure to check the wiring connector and harness for problems before replacing the sensor.

Intermittent faults in ignition modules can also cause an engine to suddenly stop running, and are often heat-related. When the module overheats, it quits working — but starts working again after it cools down (say 15 to 30 minutes later). When a bad module is responsible for an intermittent stalling problem, the engine will usually cold start just fine and run OK for short distances, but stalls after driving more than a few miles or when driving at highway speeds (especially during hot weather). It’s as if somebody suddenly turned off the ignition.

Ignition modules produce internal heat and require a good heat sink to prevent them from overheating. Modules that are mounted in or on distributors or the engine often require a layer of dielectric grease underneath to conduct heat away from the electronics. If somebody replaced the module and forgot to apply the grease, it may cause the module to run too hot and shut down.

An intermittent open that occurs in the primary ignition circuit can be yet another cause of engine stalling. A worn ignition switch in a high-mileage vehicle is often the culprit. Many people tote around huge key rings with multiple keys, fobs and trinkets dangling from the ring. When all of this weight is suspended from the ignition key in the switch, the jingling back and forth as the vehicle travels down the road can wear out the ignition switch and cause it to lock over time. Replacing the ignition switch is the fix here. But your customer should also be advised to lighten up their key ring.

What about a bad ignition coil? A bad coil on an engine with a distributor and a single coil will typically cause a no-start, or misfire due to a weak spark. But if the coil has an intermittent open, it could cause a momentary loss of spark that would kill the engine.

If you suspect a bad coil, measure the primary and secondary resistance with an ohmmeter — first with the coil at normal room temperature, then after heating it up with a hot air gun. Primary resistance is usually very low, maybe a couple of ohms or less, while secondary resistance is usually high, say 8,000 to 15,000 ohms or more. If you see a significant difference in the resistance readings hot versus cold, or a reading goes open, replace the coil.

On engines with distributorless ignition systems or coil-on-plug ignitions, a single coil failure will cause the engine to misfire and lose power. But the misfire usually isn’t bad enough to cause it to stall unless the engine is idling and can’t maintain a high enough idle speed.

MORE POSSIBILITIES
Vacuum leaks on engines with airflow sensors can lean out the fuel mixture and may cause enough lean misfire at idle to kill the engine. Vacuum leaks usually don’t have much effect at higher engine speeds because there’s enough airflow coming in through the throttle. But at idle when airflow is restricted, any leakage downstream of the airflow sensor can disrupt the air/fuel mixture. Common leak points include any vacuum hose connection to the intake manifold (including the PCV valve, EGR valve and brake vacuum booster), intake manifold gaskets, the throttle body gasket, and the air inlet hose between the airflow sensor and throttle.

If the check engine light is on and you find a lean code (P0171 or P0174), or a random misfire code (P0300), check for vacuum leaks. You can also look at fuel trim with your scan tool to see if it’s higher than normal. Fuel trim should usually be +/- 8, 10 or higher indicates a lean air/fuel mixture, and 20 will usually set a lean code.

An EGR valve that fails to close at idle is another common cause of stalling. If the EGR valve is stuck open or can’t seat because of carbon buildup under the valve, it will allow too much exhaust to be sucked back into the intake manifold. This can make the engine idle rough, misfire and/or stall. Inspecting and cleaning the EGR valve (and replacing it if necessary), and cleaning the EGR port in the intake manifold, should cure the problem.

If an engine starts and runs OK for a few minutes, then stalls, the problem is likely a buildup of exhaust backpressure that is strangling the engine. The cause is usually a plugged catalytic converter, but you should also inspect the pipes to see if any are crushed or kinked.

A quick check for excessive exhaust backpressure is to hook up a vacuum gauge to the intake manifold and start the engine. Normal intake vacuum at idle will usually be 18 to 22 inches of Mercury (Hg). If intake vacuum is low, and continues to drop as the engine idles, it would tell you pressure is backing up in the exhaust system.

Bad gas can be yet another cause of intermittent stalling. If gasoline has been contaminated with water, the water can settle to the bottom of the fuel tank and cause the engine to stall when it’s sucked up by the fuel pump. Adding a bottle or two of alcohol fuel drier to the gas tank can help absorb and dissipate the water. But if the fuel contains a lot of water, you may have to drain the fuel tank and dispose of the bad gas.

The following two tabs change content below.

Larry Carley

Larry Carley has more than 30 years of experience in the automotive aftermarket, including experience as an ASE-certified technician, and has won numerous awards for his articles. He has written 12 automotive-related books and developed automotive training software, available at www.carleysoftware.com.

Latest posts by Larry Carley (see all)

7 replies to this post
  1. If an egr valve is replaced will you be able to notice the diffrence in the rough idling immediately or do you have to give it a few days for the car to go back to normal and idle normaly?

  2. I read through this webpage and didn’t find anything related to my problem, which, unfortunately, escalated to something far worse. I will explain:

    I have a 2005 Hyundai Santa Fe. For the past year it started stalling, about 12 times total. Ex 1: I would be at a light waiting to make a left hand turn and as soon as I have the chance to go the car stalls and turns off. It will start back up right away. Ex 2: While parked and waiting at the school for my son the car’s RPMs start going up then down (while down, sounds like car is choking/coughing). It will do this several times until it goes so low the car just shuts off. It will restart right away and sometimes it will do it a 2nd time and will start back up right away.

    Now, the worst part and I don’t know if this is related to what I was experiencing above, however, one day I came home with the car. The ride was perfect and it didn’t give me any problems. 3 days later when I went to use the car again, it would not start. You turn the key and hear only one click and nothing would happen. At first we thought it was the battery so we put the battery from a friend’s vehicle and it still did not crank on. Then I had the car towed to a repair shop and I was told that the starter wire was corroded, however with further inspection, the mechanic decided to try and start the car giving the starter direct electricity and it still did the same thing, click with no crank. So the mechanic tried to manually turn the engine, and it will not budge. He said engine is locked and refused to have me spend money on a starter until I have the engine checked to make sure its worth it.

    Is this related to the stalling problems? This car has been serviced on time every time since 0 miles (almost 124,000 now), all fluids are perfect.

    This is very confusing and heartbreaking for me because I’m a single mom of 3 disabled children and I need a car.

    Please help.

  3. Hi I have a 2001 Chevy Silverado 1500 just replaced the crank sensor and fuel pump because it was stalling after it warmed up..Guess what? DID NOT HELP out 2 grand and upset. Plus truck don’t work..Any thoughts? The mechanic is now saying its the computer.NO CODES…

    • oil pressure switch. Either your oil pressure is too low or the switch is bad. Your fuel pump switch is only for starting then it switches to the oil pressure switch. You tube bad oil pressure switch Silverado.

  4. Hello, very good advice. I would like an opinion on my 3.5 ltr, 05 Holden rodeo. It has idel issues, idels up and down & occasionly stall. Mechanic has replaced 02 sensors, various other sensors, the airflow metre & had a Carbon clean. No fault code the only thing that comes up is that the engine is running rich. Could a faulty key barrel cause the issue ? I would appreciate any advice or opinions.

  5. Hi I have a 2000 infiniti i30 my problem is the car starts but 10 seconds after it start it stalls out when I step on the gas pedal it dose nothing when I unplug my mass air flow sensor the car will run for alittle longer but not to much longer what can be my problem

Leave a Reply

Latest articles from our other sites:

Vehicle Unit Increase; Import-Rich VIO Are A Boon for Import Specialists

Need a dose of good news for your business? Then hear this: The influx of new vehicles in the market will lay the foundation for bountiful aftermarket service and repair opportunities. And, with import...More

ShowMeTheParts-Mobile Has Been Optimized For Faster Paging

ShowMeTheParts-Mobile has been optimized with faster paging for mobile phones and tablet devices, giving users an improved experience. In addition, branded versions developed for the company's manufacturer...More

Vehicle Unit Increase; Import-Rich VIO Are A Boon for Import Specialists

Need a dose of good news for your business? Then hear this: The influx of new vehicles in the market will lay the foundation for bountiful aftermarket service and repair opportunities. And, with import...More

Honda: Engine Shuts Off, But Power Mode Stays In ‘On’ or ‘Accessory’

Applies To: Honda Insight models with one-push start Customers might complain that when they shift into park and shut off the engine, that the power mode stays in On or Accessory. Honda says the culprit...More

What to Know About Modern Air Ride Systems

GM, Ford, BMW and just about every other manufacturer has a 10-year-old vehicle on the road with an air ride suspension at the rear or at all four corners. These systems could be as exotic as a Land...More

Slipping Clutch: Improper Flywheel Step and Cup Dimensions

Slipping is one of the most common clutch related concerns. A slipping condition can occur after years of service or immediately after installation of a new clutch and is caused by various scenarios. One...More

2015 Vehicle Lifting Points Guide Now Available

The Automotive Lift Institute, Inc. (ALI) announces the availability of the 2015 edition of ALI’s “Vehicle Lifting Points for Frame Engaging Lifts.” This updated guide is a quick-reference single-source...More

Pulling Codes: P0302: Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected Intermittent Activity

  This article will address a misfire code from a different vantage point. It will look at a plan of attack for when a code is being set intermittently. The code we are referencing is P0302-Cylinder...More